On-Demand Webinar: With Cloud in 7th Heaven? Of stumbling blocks and business boosters

The real benefits of the Cloud are explained with best practices and discussed by experts

Here's what you'll learn in the webinar:

Public Cloud with Microsoft Azure and diva-e: Realizing the full potential! In this webinar, the challenges and opportunities of the public cloud will be critically examined and hotly discussed in a panel discussion with Frank Maenz, Azure Sales Lead KMU, Microsoft Deutschland GmbH and Sascha Sauer, Founder & Managing Director FCAS, diva-e. Using practical examples, we will show what individual solutions can look like for different companies that have decided to step into the cloud.

A webinar a with:

Watch online now (German only):

The speakers

Frank Gustav Maenz
Azure Sales Lead KMU, Microsoft Deutschland GmbH
Sascha Sauer
Managing Director FCAS
Christian Bruntsch
Head of Key Account Management

Transcript of the Webinar: With Cloud in 7th Heaven? Of stumbling blocks and business boosters

Introduction & Welcome

Hanni Gummel: And welcome again to today's diva-e webinar on Cloud. Our experts will be presenting stumbling blocks and business boosters today. And explain the actual benefits based on best practices. And discuss them as well. My name is Hanni Gummel. I'm part of the marketing team. And may accompany the webinar today. And also welcome our speakers at this point. From Microsoft, Frank Gustav Maenz is with us today. He is responsible for the Azure Sales Lead Small-Medium-Businesses. And from diva-e, Sascha Sauer. He is the Founder and Manager Director of Full Cloud Application Services. And our Head of Account Management at diva-e, Christian Bruntsch. Great to have you with us today. And, above all, share your knowledge and experience of the Cloud with us. And with that, I'll pass it on to you. And I wish all participants exciting insights.

Christian Bruntsch: Yes, thank you very much, Hanni. Yes, as I said, my name is Christian Bruntsch. I am Head of Account Management. I look after numerous customers at diva-e. And I'm going to guide you through the webinar today. And I'll be moderating it. I have observed that many customers. Yes, both corporate customers and SME customers are concerned with the topic of the public Cloud and have various questions. And we would like to present these questions to you today. And we'd like to respond to them with answers. But before we start. First of all, a short round of introductions from us. Frank, maybe you continue with the point.

Frank Maenz: Yes. Hello to the round. Hello Christian, Sascha, still Hanni. Yes, my name is Frank Maenz. I work for Microsoft. On the Azure product or the Azure platform. And I'm responsible there for the small and medium-sized enterprise customers that we usually then also support, services through our partners.

Christian Bruntsch: Yes, Sascha, with you?

Sascha Sauer: Yes, I'll get right on that. I'm the founder at diva-e. That has grown very close to my heart, the whole company over the years. And my particular interest has always been the topic of the Cloud. We have bundled the cloud initiatives within diva-e to better pool our experience. And to pass it on better to our customers. That's what I'm here for and responsible for as Managing Director. And, yes, everyone knows about Microsoft, but I thought I might add a slide about diva-e. To introduce that very briefly again here in the round. Hanni, if you click once. Diva-e is represented in eight locations. We are very focused on Germany. We now have over 800 experts on staff. And can serve our customers there. Most of all, we like to work for German customers who are active worldwide. And indeed, I would say, across all industries. We have built up a super number of references. This year, we're making over 80 million euros in sales with our team. And we are proud to be the top commerce partner in Germany. And if you now kick on again, very briefly, a look at the references times looked, as you can see here, a lot of mechanical engineering, but also the financial industry. We are doing well in the retail sector. The financial sector is strong, and energy is intense. That goes right across sectors, even into exciting things like FC Bayern Munich and Hertha BSC. We are also proud to be able to operate them. Some customers are still on-premise, but I've pulled out those who have already booked Azure services if you click further. Or rather, those that we support with Application Management on Azure. That's a very, very interesting mix. And there are large and small customers from different industries. And we have started there, that this should also grow even more. And that will also produce more because the Cloud is the future. And Azure is our favorite platform anyway. We've been with Azure for four years, one of the top digital agencies.

Data protection in the public Cloud

Christian Bruntsch: Yes, then, let's jump right in. Into our questions. Well, of course, the classic questions always come up for me in the existing customer area or for my team. Questions that are also asked about the public Cloud. I have observed that the approach can be somewhat different in the corporate sector with a large IT department. Perhaps as a medium-sized company, the IT department is not as significant. Like, like at the corporate level. And I would also like to jump right in with the, maybe not so simple questions. These are questions that always arise at the beginning when it comes to "Where is the application hosted, where is it operated?". Yes, so with such topics, around the issue of data protection, security, dependencies. And Frank, maybe the first question for you. So, data protection in the public Cloud is supposed to be a critical issue. What is the status there? What is your view of Microsoft?

Frank Maenz: Yes, whether it's a public cloud or a private cloud is relatively irrelevant. I think data protection must be guaranteed in both cases. The public is perhaps a wrong term for a cloud that is not so public. Translated, it's not public, but what's behind the crowd, of course, is that computing power is shared via visualizations. And it describes this issue of public. That doesn't mean it's public. Privacy and security, of course, are for everybody. We call as in a hyper scaler quite critical topic. Quite an important issue. For us, as well as for our customers. And of course, we do a lot and everything possible. And that would probably go beyond the scope of this webinar to describe everything that we, or our competitors or market companions, do. But the important thing is that we take this topic very seriously. Why? Because it has to do directly with our customers' trust in the provider, in us. And of course, we want to make it clear to our customers what we are doing there. And that's why it's essential that we also get certified because that makes. Independent auditors then do this with our infrastructure. And we have the necessary certification for the most common industrial nations, almost for the entire world. We also look into the local certificate to fulfil our customers in Germany, Germany, Germany, or globally the corresponding compliance requirements. And compliance is then also a topic where it is a question of how the users or the customers from the various industries proceed. We also have industry-specific certifications in some cases. So that customers can work safely there, all of this is transparent, and we have published it on a website. The best thing to do is to use a search engine of your choice, then enter Microsoft Trust Center or Azure. And there you can see very quickly which certifications we have.

What if I want to move all my data to the Cloud?

Christian Bruntsch: All right. Thank you very much. Frank, you already had a point, also the topic, just security, which is also closely linked to data protection. Sascha, I often hear my customers say: "Yes, I don't want to go to the cloud with all of them". There is sensitive data involved, regardless of the data protection issue. : "I don't want to put all my data in the cloud." Can I even do that? What if I don't want all my data in the Cloud? Is the Cloud even an option for me, then? Can I work with it?

Sascha Sauer: Yes, of course. Then, the Cloud. Of course, the public cloud or hyper-scaler offerings are always an option. So, you don't have to switch with all applications right away, but you should think about it what you do. We proceed to determine the goals to be achieved together with the customer. And depending on the plans, you can then relatively quickly determine which data, which processes belong in the public Cloud. And which information I would like to keep in my own data centre for whatever reason or technical dependencies. In their own, let's say, operational sovereignty, wholly managed. There are the appropriate models behind it. As I said, it is essential to define the goals beforehand. And to see which technical dependencies lie behind them. And then I can decide this. And we can see those hybrid scenarios are currently the most popular on the market. Even large corporations with a prominent, complete cloud strategy still have some parts that should remain in-house for various reasons. Yes.

Christian Bruntsch: Frank, what's your view on that? On the security issue. Are there any criteria for you guys where you say, "Yeah, then rather not public cloud?" How do you evaluate the topic?

Frank Maenz: Well, it's actually up to the customer to assess it. I can only point out what we are doing in terms of security. Microsoft invests several billion here every year. On the topic of security. I think that's a core competence that we have to have. To provide this global infrastructure, we have to operate it securely and offer it securely to the customer. That's the customer security or the governance that has to be in place to ensure that the data stored in our infrastructure is also secure. As I said, it is up to each customer to evaluate this. What security precautions he wants to take. I think he can take those, or I know the Cloud can be an extra, in terms of security, and not a less. Which data then leaves the company, or not. Whether they're encrypted now, basically, the information that we have in our data centres is encrypted. The customer can also encrypt it. Also can be encrypted by the customer with their key. So that we only have data garbage in our data centres. And without which, if we wanted something, we would not be able to do anything at all. Is it the customer who has to decide what data goes in? There are, of course, compliance requirements. And Sascha also said hybrid scenarios are used there. And there are, for example, companies that say our IP, our patents, all our research. And investment data. We don't want to give them to the Cloud for whatever reason. And we leave that in our own data centre as well. That's fair. I think that's an individual decision. And it's also different for everyone, just like companies today that found start-ups. They say, "We don't have our own data centre. Everything we do." And there is a lot of research and IP data in the start-up if it is in the biotechnology sector. They also go into the cloud and trust encryption. So, every individual. And you have to discuss that with your partner if you work with a partner, which we recommend. You also have to discuss individually what the sensitivities are within the company.

What are the advantages and disadvantages of the Cloud?

Christian Bruntsch: What are the fundamental advantages and disadvantages of the Cloud? So, if I use it if I decide to take this step as a company or as a medium-sized company. Frank, what are the advantages and disadvantages?

Frank Maenz: Maybe just listing the advantages. So, one advantage is scalability. Last April, we know what else happened. Corona was ramping up. A lot of companies have shut down. It's not funny. You can't say that. But one example is, Maschinenring is a customer of Microsoft. They rent out machines. Suddenly the challenge was, in April, the asparagus harvest was coming up. "How do we still find asparagus helpers?". And within 48 days, they managed to set up a platform on which thousands of harvest helpers were placed. They said: "We would never have been able to do that with our infrastructure, which we would have had to build, buy, deploy and program first. So they were able to save the German asparagus harvest within 48 hours. What was behind it, of course, was a cloud. And they also know that this infrastructure is not needed for a long time. And that's the second advantage, and they could save costs by scaling up quickly. They didn't buy the assets they needed to do that. They rented computing power, storage power. And then they could also scale down again. And a completely different topic is the topic of innovation. Many companies in the midmarket have not yet realized what more innovation and the Cloud can mean. For example, years ago, we were approached by a medium-sized German manufacturer of parking machines and barrier systems. And the challenges were, they wanted to offer individual billing for their municipal customers. Say, big cars, which is fair. Pay more than small cars when they drive in the parking lot. That's where they started. Or an e-car pays more, than a less, than another car. Or there is a subscription. The license plate is read. That's when they started looking for their developers to program an AI. That keeps car types apart. Big cars and small cars. Maybe it even has voice recognition in it to make that barrier fully automated. They couldn't find the staff or build the infrastructure. And they came to us, for whatever reason, to Microsoft. And we were able to help them very quickly with a partner. Because we have these models, these AI models, whether that's recognizing a car, recognizing a license plate. It is still an issue, "How do I handle the data there?". Or voice assistants, we also had out of the box in our Cloud. As a cognitive service. And they were able to build a dummy within two days. And we're able to test that. Before that, they had spent months looking for AI developers, which of course, you can't just find in the region. And I think these are three topics where innovation is perhaps the most important thing. You have to realize that you can do certain things, then go out. And the core competence of barrier manufacturers is not to develop AI. It's to offer a system that the municipalities can use.

Christian Bruntsch: Thank you. Compelling examples. On the pros and cons. Sascha, do you have any additions from a service provider perspective of operating models of different types of application management? What is your view on the advantages and disadvantages of the Cloud?

Sascha Sauer: Well, Frank has already said a lot. Innovation sees these services, what the cloud providers offer. They change, here again, the access to innovation, especially in the middle class. That's super. The issue that we often still see is the globality. So, in principle, the global availability. Especially also business models, then I say roll out, worldwide. Of course, these are also real advantages with the Cloud. We also mentioned cost transparency. Of course, I also see what I consume. I can also control this accordingly. Cost management is also part of it. Yes. There are still some advantages. There are certainly disadvantages, too. If I don't do my homework, if I bring my old infrastructure into the Cloud as it is, lift and shift, I often have the problem that I then have higher costs than in the existing internal data centres. Simply because not all applications are cloud-ready. We need an analysis beforehand. We have to see what fits. What can I perhaps, let's say, reform? What can I, let's say, modify, reuse. Cut into micro-services so that I can simply incorporate certain flexibilities. Into this theme. Yes. That's what I meant earlier when I said, "As a service provider, we always start with a target." We do a vision workshop. Where we say, "Where do you want to be in two, three years? What do you want to achieve with the cloud scenario? Is there more production, more countries, and more new, new products? What is your business vision for your company?". And depending on that, we usually place a combination of private and public cloud systems.

What about the dependency on the Cloud?

Christian Bruntsch: One, one point that still resonates with me then. What the customers tell me, or, or above all, is the topic of dependency. Yes, you know so from the classic and business if you want to change hosters. Hurts, but you can do that then just somewhere. Then you just move the machines. But what about the public Cloud? Do I have to commit to one and then be tied to it forever? Or is there also the possibility of carrying out a cloud transition, slash migration or something? What is the relationship there?

Sascha Sauer: Maybe I'll take up the ball. First of all. That is, of course, a supposed disadvantage, this dependency. Dependence on the service provider, and the more services I integrate into my infrastructure, into my IT landscape. The more I incorporate services into my infrastructure, my IT landscape, the more I become dependent on these specific services. I can also pursue a strategy if that is important to me. I can say that I might have content analysis software that I simply run on Kubernetes infrastructure. For example, I find the standard Kubernetes infrastructure at all hyper-scalers these days. That means there I'm also able to say, from a risk perspective, "I can switch, too." I turned around, and that's why it's only half a disadvantage for me if I choose a service provider, like Microsoft Azure, at this point now. Then I also have certain advantages. Azure, in particular, has many benefits when it comes to, let's say, user-centric Active Directory management. Internal IT is usually already Microsoft-centric. At this point, I would say that everything that goes in administration is often set up in this area. Of course, all the offers via Teams and the Office landscape are available. Working through this in an integrated way is a great advantage that Microsoft offers from our point of view. Especially for German medium-sized businesses. And that's why we made a conscious decision three or four years ago to go with Microsoft. Because we said, "This is the platform that best suits our customers in Germany. In individual cases, of course, there may be other dependencies. If someone has a solid and, let's say, focused Microsoft marketing orientation. Of course, there may be one or the other application better off in the Google Cloud. Now just as an example. Of course, this can also be integrated into an overall scenario. Of course, these are also hybrid scenarios that we also advise on. And then also, let's say, implement them for the customer. Yes. So, I wouldn't necessarily recommend investing so much in the topic of interoperability. Because that also costs money. Yes? Of course, I can't do certain things then. I then also give myself opportunities. I can simply take advantage of them if I consciously choose a selected provider, a particular business case.

Christian Bruntsch: Frank, do you have any additions to that?

Frank Maenz: Yes, so one addition to that. Sascha has already said, so develop a new architecture with container technology. Is that a dream scenario for every customer because he can then really say, "Where do I get the best price for which scenario?". And dear Amazon, or dear Microsoft, you know, I can offer very quickly. What does that provide for the customer? The provider wants to give the best service, maybe the best price, always. That is, first of all, per se, I think, a great advantage. This is not only the case with container services, but the available infrastructure components there are also comparable, of course. And customers should look at: "What does my entire IT landscape look like? Sascha has already said that there is already a powerful tendency toward Microsoft in the classic office administration activities. Users are already managed centrally there. Of course, this can also be transferred to other infrastructure or development competencies with the Azure Cloud to have a very uniform user administration. This also has something to do with security. So, a very crucial factor. But it's also not that we say the user or the enterprises. The users in the company have to choose a cloud. We also support a multi-cloud approach because many companies, especially larger companies, say: "Simple dependency is a risk. We want to spread the risk. That is why we are pursuing a multi-cloud strategy. And we also offer, for example, in Azure, Azure Art Services, so that you can have your multi-cloud strategy and the assets you have in different clouds, your own data centre, or your server. You can also manage them centrally to prevent loss infections here. So, it's a common practice today. And I believe that whoever has the best service will prevail. And that's a significant advantage of an infrastructure that you run in the Cloud.

Christian Bruntsch: Thank you. Again, the hint is before we get to the next question to our webinar guests. Take the opportunity just to ask their questions in the chat. We collect those and go in any case, gladly at the end also again. Answer the questions. I would like to get to the point next. Now we've cleared all that up. I am a medium-sized company. I want to get started now.

How do I get started in the public Cloud as a medium-sized company?

Christian Bruntsch: Keyword so Cloud-readiness. We did the workshops, et cetera. What's the best way for a midmarket company that doesn't have a lot of cloud experience to get started with a public cloud topic? How do you get started? What should I keep in mind? Frank, maybe to you first, ask the question.

Frank Maenz: Yes, with pleasure. I've already heard that the customer has done some homework between the lines. First of all, actively in the topic of Cloud, what can the providers also? Where do they differ? Maybe even a little bit, where are the prices? Get to grips with this. Of course, you have to make people available who can also deal with this topic. Yes, this can be in the IT department. It can also be in purchasing, depending on the company's size. Or in one of them, it can also be in marketing or somewhere else in sales. So, somewhere one, deal with. What do the platforms look like? The next step is because small, medium-sized companies will always, or usually, work with my partner. To build up this competence and talk to the partner in a qualified way. About goals. About business goals that you want to support. And the partner has to understand that as well. And there is the next point. How do I start to question myself in the right way? After all, many companies have been working with a partner for decades. Is that still the right partner for the new challenges? If I become an enterprise and my IT partner had never actively talked to me about a cloud strategy for the last few years. Then perhaps it is no longer the suitable partner. Then I might have to look for the right partner as well. But in any case, talk to the existing partner. What competencies he has here. And then start these projects with the partner, yes first to frames. Define the goals. And then successively start the first projects. That's a crucial point.

Christian Bruntsch: diva-e is such a partner for the Cloud. Sascha, what is your view on that? What's the best way for a customer from the midmarket to start with this topic? What should he pay attention to?

Sascha Sauer: Well, excellent, thank you very much, Frank, at this point. Of course, the external partner, diva-e, in this case. We are happy to conduct such workshops. And there also to accompany the way. Through target definition, conception and realization. But for me, it's crucial that the customer's own IT department, let's say, builds up the know-how. Yes. Through the training programs offered by the cloud providers. The IT department has to deal with the topic itself. To be able to discuss it with our experts at eye level. That is certainly a path that we can also support. We can also assist. And for me, it is also essential to define these goals. Of course, this should preferably be discussed together with the management. "Where do I want to be in two or three years? This is not necessarily a pure IT issue, but as I said, it also involves the business plan. And that has to be coordinated. That would be important for me. I might have a negative example from the past. Three or four years ago, we experienced a customer situation where a customer said: "Yes, we are already in the cloud. We're already doing that.". And when we looked inside, it was a student trainee. He had just clicked together a prototype. And built a small automation system to start up and shut down servers. That's not an integrated cloud approach. At least, not the way we advise our customers. Instead, it's about deriving which cloud scenario is the right one from the corporate strategy. We said hybrid Cloud. There is a public Cloud, a Private Cloud. It is then selecting the suitable applications. And to define a course of action. How do I get there to achieve my goals? Yes.

What about central IT?

Christian Bruntsch: I would like to make a point. Sascha, you said that central IT has to develop further. What issues does major IT have to deal with in the public Cloud? Again with the point. Well, I know that IT always has a lot to do. They are keeping the existing systems running. They are always somewhere. What issues do they have to deal with then? When do they develop further?

Sascha Sauer: Yes, perhaps also from my own experience. For us, diva-e, it was also a learning process, yes. When we got involved with this Cloud. And the main points are that, above all, the topic of, let's say, automation. That, yes, so in the Cloud, I have infrastructure code. I have written scripts I do in classic operation, with my hand on my arm. Especially, let's say when I start up and shut down systems automatically within minutes. Then, of course, I also have to automate the operational landscape behind it—for example, monitoring and logging systems. Of course, I have to automate such things in scripts in the Cloud. Because otherwise, it won't work at all. And that is a form of software development. In principle, I'm also in the process of adapting these scripts via specific lifecycles. Again and again to the operating system, too, to the delivery systems. And that that was a substantial change. Because I simply have a completely different requirement. Also, in terms of the daily work or the employees' skills to bring with them. All providers have great learning programs, not just Amazon, Google, and Microsoft. There are super-learning programs for employee certification. Education programs, training programs. That's a great place to learn. But that's an additional task that IT, at that point, has to do. Or, of course, you can also do that with us. As a partner and service provider, we are happy to take on these topics. Yes.

Christian Bruntsch: So. Yes, Frank.

Frank Maenz: Boundaries can. So, these programs, I know now from Microsoft, but think that is similar at Amazon or Google. These learning paths, up to certification, are then also free of charge. So, apart from the personnel costs, there are no high costs because the employee has to deal with the subject. First of all, there are no high costs, because I have to invest in training. Then you can always go deeper. So, I think, because of these service ideas, some things were previously time-consuming or expensive courses. And where you could release employees, there are these learning programs or learning paths in digital format today. So you don't have to invest much, which is, of course, always an issue for smaller, medium-sized companies. And I think vital to me is always, also still important, you also asked: "What, is the role, the IT changing?". So, also there, every company is particular. Every IT department is exceptional. After all, there are people in it. And some people don't want to change it. They simply want to administer the IT infrastructure. They can do that on-premise. But they can also do it wonderfully in the Cloud. Maybe just a little differently. And then some people say, "I don't want to deal with this sheet metal. I just also have in IT, the interest to talk with the departments.". And say, "How can I support this department and provide this transfer service?". And that's where a change of role within IT comes in, of course. Not the ones that are just costing, but also actively supporting other departments in achieving their goals. And build up competence to implement this using modern technology, cloud technology. So, it can also be, in our case, we would say, an enrichment. Yes. It doesn't just have to be a change, where many people, perhaps, are also afraid for whatever reason. Or maybe it is also justified if you have to do something new.

Does the Cloud still need support and operation?

Christian Bruntsch: Following on from that. Now I have, now I have dealt with it. I have my application up and running now. I also often hear, he has this prejudice. Would I call it? "Do you still need support and operation now? Or, or is everything managed in the cloud now? Yes, everything is automated in the cloud.". Sascha, what do you say to that?

Sascha Sauer: Yes, we hear that again and again. Especially, let's say, software assets service or platform assets service models. Of course, these are then often introduced. Our experience is that the opposite is the case. Primarily because of the complexity of the solution. And because of the dependencies across multiple systems, across multiple partners. We have already mentioned hybrid models. Dealing with a proper operating concept is essential, especially when maintaining business-critical infrastructure. Yes. If it's my production infrastructure that I control via an application like this. Or if it's an important sales channel that produces business-critical revenue. Then that's just important. Especially if you also go in towards 24 seven still. To ensure general, all-around availability. Or to guarantee zero downtime. Of systems that simply always have to be used somewhere in the world. These are issues that can often no longer be mapped by the company's own internal IT. If you haven't prepared yourself properly. We offer this as a partner. Real application management. Then I'm no longer in the infrastructure layer but in application management. With accurate SLAS behind it, with recovery times. And then, of course, this can be better presented via such a service provider. As if each of your medium-sized companies were to build up its staff. And uses them in shift operation. That is certainly not the way to go. The Cloud does nothing automatically by itself. It has to be automated. And it must also be continuously developed. The operating concept continues to grow in the same way. Just like the individual applications evolve. Yes. Well, we, everyone knows that. We no longer make a big fat release with Bing Bang once a year, but there are, of course flowing deployments, permanent deployments. And, of course, the infrastructure, the operating infrastructure, always has to be adapted accordingly. And here, I can only advocate making a proper SLR contract with a partner like diva-e, for example, because our expertise lies precisely in bundling this across several customers. And we are then putting those benefits out there.

Estimation of effort and costs of the Cloud

Christian Bruntsch: I'd like to go back to the cost issue for a moment. So, we have said: Okay, the automation, script development, is somewhere natural a process, where effort arises.". We now also have the topic of operation and support. Frank, I have another question for you. What does that look like? What budget pots do I need then still for the use? Now from the public Cloud. How does it work there? How do I even get to an expenditure estimate or a cost integration so that I know where I end up?

Frank Maenz: Well, first of all, you don't have any significant upfront investment. Except that you have to get to grips with the platform or platforms. You have to build up competence. Yes. You then need to be able to give the cost estimate, which. You come very much from the application development. I come more from the infrastructure component. But in both cases, there are ways that you can come up with these prices on, from pricing calculators, just like pi times thumb. Yes. That is not yet optimized. It takes a lot of expertise to build that into the system. We also offer programs for this. We also provide free programs for customers, which we use to look at their infrastructure, together with the existing partner. And then give an estimate of what the operation in a cloud would cost. So, upfront investments in hardware, software, what you also need, everything else. Space rental, backup, you don't have to operate at first. That comes then. You'll be billed when you start using the first services. And then, of course, you can quickly see the actual costs. And the nice thing is that we see this with many customers. They start, let's say, with, at a hundred per cent. And say, "Oh, that's expensive.". But then they begin to shut down individual services in an automated way. On weekends, they sleep. During office hours, they're booted up. And, and, and. Then, over the months, you see the cost curve develop downwards. You're not happy about that as a sales employee, but that's what we offer our customers. But as IT, you suddenly see that you can optimize downwards. Every day that you deal with it, the costs become more economical. This not only makes IT happy but also other departments. And then, of course, you can also say: "Okay, which workflow are we going to move to the Cloud next? And so you pull it all down little by little. And you also have a certain level of cost transparency. You can also say that individual departments have a development department and infrastructure. You can see the costs there. So, the cost transparency is very high. Of course, you have to work continuously on the topic to get the best out of it. And at the end then, the customers, if they have started in the month and times in comparison to going, at a hundred, they are after three, four months very quickly on 60 per cent. So, then you've already made that profit. That you say, "Here over the years, over three, four years with depreciation and, and.Is the operation more economical."

Christian Bruntsch: All right. Yes. I'm with the questions that I had now, that my customers have asked again also. Sascha, you have a supplement, right?

Sascha Sauer: I have a minimal addition. Of course, with the cost issue, it is also essential to look at it during project implementation. So, of course, our cloud architects have already found access to this. They say: "If I implement certain components in the applications, I will also affect them in the end. On the, yes, cost indication that the price calculator already throws out.". This should be taken advantage of at this point.

Frank Maenz: Yes. So, what you also said earlier. You don't want to do these lift and shift scenarios. Because it brings little or no advantages for the customer, except for migration costs. Instead, you have the costs of migration. Then you can deal with the adjusting screws, or perhaps also with a specific part of the design of applications. So that in the long term, the costs can be recouped.

Sascha Sauer: Exactly. That's exactly how it is.

Christian Bruntsch: Thank you very, very much. Yes, Hanni is coming again. Is already coming along again. Yes, very nice. I think my questions have been answered that I had. And I'm happy to pass them on to Hanni. But I hope, of course, that other questions have also come. And that the opportunity is taken. Many, many thanks, Sascha. Many, many thanks, Frank.


Hanni Gummel: Also, thank you very much for this detailed insight from my side. And the exciting discussions on the topic of Cloud. We are now, as I said, entering the Q&A session. And all participants now have the opportunity to ask their questions to our experts. Again, just write them in the question box. And then we can clarify them right away. One question has already reached us.

What is the biggest stumbling block when starting in the Cloud?

Sascha Sauer: Yes. I'll take that. I've already alluded to it a bit if you're not clear about the goals. If you're not clear, "What is my goal with the cloud strategy?". If it's just the boss coming in and saying, "We're going to do cloud because I've heard that's good.". Then that's usually not enough. Then you have the lift and shift problem. What Frank just alluded to. I always advise doing the small workshop to be clear about the goals. In two or three years with the IT infrastructure, where do I want to be with the IT infrastructure? What should my landscape look like? And then to make the deduction: "What is the right cloud strategy?". And then, you can implement it with your staff or with a partner. We have also described this. And Microsoft supports this with tools and with platform consultants. The realization is then, let's say, goal-oriented. And that will be a success.

Hanni Gummel: Thank you very much. Next question.

How expensive is Azure compared to ABS and Google?

Frank Maenz: Well, I think all three of them say they have the best price. Do you have to go in and say what? Well, you can't compare all three platforms. But basically, I would say many don't give each other anything. To the advantage that perhaps speaks for Microsoft, for the customers. We don't just offer classic Microsoft systems in our data centres. Operating systems and databases, but also open-source software. It was operating systems and databases. And if someone already has licenses for Sequel or Windows Server, they can use them twice during the migration phase. That reduces the price, of course. Or simply continue to operate in the Cloud for as long as he has the license rights. Of course, that reduces the cost again. But otherwise, you have to go in individually. And see how big the platform issue is or the infrastructure issue is. How many CPUs does the server need? How does the database need to be cut? And that's where I said, "You can't compare directly.". But in any case, that's why multi-cloud, you can maybe get out of yourself, the best of all platforms. But I think we have a competitive price. And of course, because it's a criterion for the customers, we want to keep that.

Sascha Sauer: So, maybe from my side, the question. I can confirm that because we are constantly asked this as an independent service provider. Yes. So, the price is, the price is hot, but it's also not everything. And you have to look at the overall strategy. And it makes, I'll say, absolute sense. The other advantages that come out of the public Cloud, from the respective platforms, are also next to each other. In any case, that makes more sense than just taking the price calculators now. And to add them to the decision-making process. That is not the primary instrument. Cost management, cost transparency then leads to the fact that I can simply optimize costs. Frank also gave a good illustration of how this works. And it is essential that you simply do it. So, we again see that the customers would like to have extensive reporting at the point. But they do not react. And that, of course, is the big mistake. When it comes to cost savings, you simply have to have the appropriate skills. Who then also act accordingly on this topic. And also make specific changes.

Frank Maenz: Yes. Or bring the employees to the point, via training, that they have the topics, the competence.

Sascha Sauer: Exactly. They have to be able to do it, but they also have to be allowed to do it. So, I see again and again. Then, the cost-optimizing employee is somehow, I say, there is the third row. And he knows exactly what needs to be done. But he would have to invest three days to change the software. Or, let's say, to start a little programming somewhere. And he doesn't have the competence to release such a small budget. And then difficult. So, it's sometimes. It's such organizationally complex traps that IT departments fall into.

Hanni Gummel: Wonderful. Thank you very much—one last question.

Who in the company should approach the implementation of a cloud initiative?

Frank Maenz: I think very different departments come into consideration here. I think Sascha has already said it. The IT department has to deal with it. Whether the IT department, the decisive departments must always be, it is not. I think it's always in dialogue, either a business department with IT. Or in the best case, the IT department supports the business department. And aligns with their challenges or needs. So, but in any case, IT has to be taken along. And, of course, it is also essential at the beginning that the business decision-makers. Those who bear the economic responsibility for the company must also be involved in these strategies.

Sascha Sauer: I agree. Whoever has to deal with this, by the way, Frank, is also the purchasing department. So, we also repeatedly see that a buyer still has issues with this flexible pricing, which comes from the cloud scenarios. Because they prefer to think about fixed budgets, yes, you also have to once. You also have to turn the loop with the buyer once it doesn't just come across wrong, not wrong.

Hanni Gummel: Wonderful. Another praise reaches us. "Very well done," says one participant. Incredible, that makes us happy. And should there still be a need for more? Then you can contact Sascha Sauer or Christian Bruntsch directly. And they are looking forward to your questions. And the exchange with you. I now have the opportunity to point out the upcoming events. For example, the adapTo. It is the only developer conference in Europe. To the Adobe Experience Manager. It's already happening next week. Or the Spryker Excite with diva-e, also in early October. Or also a webinar together with usercentrics. We will present the new Adobe Launch Extension. For more info, of course, feel free to check out diva-e.com. And that's the end of it. A very big thank you to our speakers today for these exciting insights. And of course to our participants. It's great that you were there. We wish you a great day. Stay healthy. All the best. And see you next time.

Sascha Sauer: Thank you very much. Take care.

Frank Maenz: Thank you very much.