On-Demand Webinar: Telefónica takes off with new Omnichannel Marketing Strategy

How the communications giant creates an overarching personalized customer experience with the Adobe Experience Platform

Here's what you'll learn in the webinar:

About 1.5 years ago, we started our proof of concept of the Adobe Experience Platform together with Telefónica Deutschland. A lot has happened since then and now we are live with AEP and the company is in the midst of transforming into an omnichannel marketing rockstar. In this webinar, we'll talk with Thomas Forster and Philip Dietrich about the challenges we've faced as a team along the way, their experiences with the Adobe Experience Platform as the technical foundation for Telefónica's transformation, and their key learnings from the process.

Key Facts:

  • What makes an omnichannel marketing rockstar?

  • What lessons have we learned in 1.5 years with AEP?

  • What would we do differently or better today?

Watch online now (german only):

The speakers

Anna Graser joined diva-e in 2021 as a consultant for Adobe Target and the Adobe Experience Platform. She accompanied the AEP project at Telefónica from the beginning in data modeling, implementation and audience management. She draws on a broad knowledge of AEP and the Adobe Experience Cloud in her role.
Anna Graser
CRO Consultant
Franziska Borgwald has worked in project management and consulting since 2016 and joined diva-e in 2022. As a project manager, she supports the team across the board, focusing on customer communication, planning and organization. In her current role, she draws on her experience from 6 years in advertising and CRM agencies.
Franziska Borgwald
Project Manager Enterprise Suites
Fabian Schaipp is 33 years old, married and lives in Munich. Since January 2020, he has been working as a Senior Tracking Specialist at Telefónica. As Technical Lead in the Telefóncia AEP project, Fabian is responsible for data models and data streams, among other things.
Fabian Schaipp
Senior Tracking Specialist
Since 2005, Thomas Forster has worked in various marketing and sales departments at Telefónica Deutschland, from product marketing to brand management, onsite marketing and most recently in data-driven marketing as program lead for AEP. As Manager for Customer Activation & Personalization at Customer Marketing since June 1, he has been responsible for consistent and personalized customer communication and offers design across all B2C channels.
Thomas Forster
Teamleiter Customer Activation & Personalization, Telefónica

Transcript of the webinar: Telefónica takes off with new omnichannel marketing strategy

Julia Miksch: A few minutes until all participants* have joined us and we will start shortly. Hello and welcome to today's webinar on Teléfonica takes off with new omnichannel marketing strategy. How the communications giant is using the Adobe Experience Platform to create an overarching, personalized customer experience. We'll start with a quick tech check. Right. You have a control panel on your right with a question box. You're welcome to ask questions to the experts and speakers during the webinar and those will be taken up later on, that's right, asked personally to the experts and then answered. Thank you very much and we hope you enjoy Teléfonica's new omnichannel strategy and I will now hand over to our moderator Anna Graser.

Anna Graser: Thank you very much and welcome from our side. We are pleased that you and all of you have tuned in and, if necessary, you can also watch the recording afterwards, which is available as a video for today's webinar or, as we have just announced, the project for the introduction of a custom data platform at Teléfonica Deutschland. Today's topic will be why Teléfonica introduced a CDP in the first place, what the lessons learned from this project are, and what you might be able to learn from it. But before we start, I would suggest that we introduce ourselves briefly so that you know who you are dealing with. My name is Anna Graser. I've been with diva-e for two years now as an Adobe Solutions Consultant and I'm responsible for the Adobe Experience Platform and Adobe Target and I've been involved in the project at Teléfonica for a year and a half now, so actually from the very beginning.

Franziska Borgwald: Yes, my name is Franziska Borgwald. I've been with diva-e for four months as a project manager and have also been involved in the Teléfonica project for the same period. Just before that also as a disclaimer, because this webinar is not so much about the exact content of Proof of Content. Therefore, if you are interested, there is a whitepaper from us. We'll be happy to send you the link to download it afterwards. And in this sense, a short objection. Philipp, who we had announced today, is unfortunately injured and can't make it. That's why we've asked Fabian to step in and that's exactly why we'd like to welcome our guests Fabian and Thomas from Teléfonica and, exactly, it's great that you're here and that you're taking the time to talk to us today about your experiences and I would suggest that you briefly introduce yourselves.

Fabian Schaipp: With pleasure. Thank you very much for inviting me to be there. As you said, unfortunately Philipp can't today. That's why I'm hopefully a worthy substitute. I have been with Teléfonica since January 2020. I'm mainly responsible for the topics of tracking web and app, and I'm the technical lead in the AEP project and have created all the technical foundations for the introduction of the AEP.

Thomas Forster: Thank you very much from my side for the invitation. My name is Thomas Forster. I'm the business part here in the expert panel, so to speak, and come from the digital sector, where I also worked for ten years, building up a bit of online personalization. Then we also moved a bit into the data-driven marketing area. I was the business lead for the introduction of the AEP and have been responsible for Customer Engagement Activation Personalization since June 1. In other words, I'm now really concerned with escalating what we've already enabled digitally over the past two years across all channels and extracting the best possible benefit from it.

Anna Graser: Thank you very much for that. Then I would suggest that we jump right into the topic. Thomas and maybe make it a little bit easier for the audience to understand why you decided to do a CDP. I think it's important to understand what your strategy looks like at the moment and where you want to take your company. So, can you give us a short status about Teléfonica's strategies in terms of online marketing and marketing in general and also in terms of customer targeting for the next years?

Thomas Forster: Yes. I'm happy to do that. So, we have-, I mentioned this before, personalization on our agenda for hours. Have also-, I'll say the last few years have been more promotion and product-heavy. Then we went over a little bit and said, we would like to rebuild the whole thing now. On the one hand, we want to do data-driven things, but also, as they say, a lot of things with this data, in other words, a lot of things with perspective. In other words, on the one hand, we really want to enable personalization for all channels. Had, as I said, the advantage that we already did it online and digitally. And now it's really about setting up a kind of channel and management also anew, in order to set up the channel marketing and then find out a lot from the customer there, that is-.

Anna Graser: May I interrupt briefly at this point?

Thomas Forster: Sure

Anna Graser: Would you like to explain this buzzword ominchannel marketing or omnichannel marketing for our viewers?

Thomas Forster: I'd be happy to do that. I can explain my point of view behind it a little bit. For us it was like this, we worked a bit on the marketing side, I mean I also wandered through many departments, always a bit silo-like. That is, everyone had a bit of a personalized agenda, but it was never really networked with each other. And now, through this strategic pillar of personalization, we are raising the whole thing to its own level and bringing all departments into this personalization boat, so to speak. That means drawing benefits from it. Each department has its own goals. Of course, each department wants to achieve the goals as well, but everyone needs to know, each department needs to know how to personalize and also use their goal. And that's why, in order to set the channel marketing there as well, on the one hand provide personalization for all channels equally, the basis behind it and but also get data, to work, with the data that Fabian and colleagues then also provide us, so to speak, make a lot out of it, learn a lot from the customer and accordingly also targeted this data also differently (? use and equate).

Anna Graser: Okay, stop. That was more the strategic goals, I would say, from the business point of view. Do you also have strategic goals in terms of tag and data that you are now pursuing in the next few years?

Fabian Schaipp: Definitely. So, as Thomas already said, it's supposed to be omnichannel and customer-focused. What do you need for that? A uniform data basis. Currently, I do a lot of silos. As I explained at the beginning, I'm responsible for web and app tracking, which means we have a lot of online data. But what about the existing customer data, the ... CRM data or hotline and so on? That's an important prerequisite for being able to do anything Thomas would like. And we see that as a challenge, I think a CDP could help us there. And the other issue, especially in the online sector, I think many people are now also affected by this, is working in a cookieless way. The cookies, nobody likes the cookies, are falling away more and more or restriction by (? module manufacturer) and also there we would like to try with a CDP, direct address over, yes, direct channels or so respectively certain destinations to implement that and just to bypass these straight.

Anna Graser: Okay, got it. That means, it has already emerged a bit from your answer, a CDP fits in very well insofar, you have also just said, it is so to speak a bit of a technical basis for the whole thing will use and just that as a basis only to get this, I call it now times 360 degree customer: inside view to be able to pursue your strategic goals in the future. Correct?

Fabian Schaipp: Yes, that's correct.

Franziska Borgwald: Very good. So after it was clear that you wanted to record a CDP, so to speak, it was probably a question of which CDP it would be, which one would suit you. And there it is of course interesting to know what the criteria were and what can you say from the business point of view what your criteria were?

Thomas Forster: Yes, to be honest, in the beginning we really thought - I mentioned it earlier - channel-specific. You put some business cases in the foreground and for us it was first of all challenging to step out in the digital world. First and foremost, collecting the business cases, but also really getting feedback from all the other marketing departments about which cases are currently in the foreground in terms of personalization. What are the goals? How can these goals be better realized for the respective departments? And that's why it was first important for us to structure and evaluate all the use cases that we have in the marketing area together according to certain KPIs, such as value, volume based on CPA and performance perspective or MPS, and then to say, okay, we'll pick out the most profitable one for our proof of concept and ultimately really try to implement it and make it a success.

Anna Graser: Does that mean that you were driven by these evaluation criteria from a business point of view?

Thomas Forster: That's right. Exactly. That was our approach. I think that was also the right approach. I mean, through use cases you can also prove that it's increasingly platforms also lead to success. So the one, the other, I would say, is a big challenge that we have now also underestimated a bit, because data protection is everything that played a role in the case. I think that was still unclear at the beginning, especially with regard to consent management, and that was simply important for us to say, okay, if we had included data protection earlier, then we might have achieved one or two things more quickly with regard to our goals and our freedom. And, yes, these were also the criteria that played a role for us in this respect. If I now expand on the whole thing a bit, then I would like to say that with the use cases we naturally also have the party data in the foreground and for the party data it is also important for us to work cleanly with these use cases. That is, when we introduced the AEP, CDP, it was not yet clear to us that it would be a CDP. We were also thinking about whether it would be an IMP based on the use cases I just mentioned. The fact that we now also had mainly ... first party use cases. It was important to us that we used the right levers to introduce a CDP.

Anna Graser: Can you briefly explain for our viewers why IMP is not as suitable for first party data as CDP in this case, especially from your point of view?

Thomas Forster: I would be happy to do that, yes, well, when we were faced with the decision, then of course IMP was also relevant. Two years ago, this market development did not yet exist, and of course we also had party data use cases there. But they were not available to the extent that use cases now work with almost party data. That's why it was clear to us relatively early on that we would plan our use cases on a CDP, so to speak, and that we would then also enter into the evaluation process to determine which CDP would also play a role for us. To be frank, we also had an in-house solution, CDP side at the start. But we had also evaluated it and then realized that it was only suitable to a limited extent. We were still focusing on one-to-one communication, but we reached our limits when it came to using the standard projector to connect to the display world, for example, or to the online world. And that's why we said, okay, let's first get to grips with the market and see what is suitable for our purposes. We also considered whether it was a best-of-breed solution or whether we should go for a platform-agnostic solution. And because we have also really revisited the topic and, as I said, we are also talking about, I'll just say from the text, a lot of synergy effects also has a platform-agnostic solutions, we then just came to Adobe and have then also selected Adobe.

Anna Graser: Got it. Those were rather the business use cases or the business criteria first of all. Were there any requirements from a technical point of view, when someone said, okay, that's important to us for the solution we're going to use and that's what we need?

Fabian Schaipp: Definitely. You can't do it without technology. One important aspect was the current test that we have. We didn't want to completely throw it overboard. At least, that was not our requirement at Telefonica. Maybe that's more of an opportunity with other companies, say we're building a new technology or something. But we have, as probably many do, good technology in use, especially in the online area, and also Google Analytics, and we didn't want to do without that. So, we didn't want to completely rebuild. And that absolutely had to-, that was one of the most important requirements, which would not have been given, then, yes, it would have been quite difficult to integrate a CDP with it. And for the CDP itself, return capability was the most important thing, because in my opinion, online personalization is an important channel, and if the customer is already there, then you want to address them specifically. And that has to happen quickly.

Anna Graser: Yes. Got it. You've already briefly hinted, or rather, we've already spoiled it in the webinar title, that you ultimately decided on the Adobe Experience Platform as the solution. The AEP is now a bit more than just a CDP, I would say. There is the real time CDP as a solution. But there are also several services and applications on top. Could you perhaps briefly explain which solutions Teléfonica has chosen? And what, from your perspective, perhaps also a bit with regard to the experiences of the last year and a half, are your USPs that the Adobe Experience Platform now also brings for you?

Fabian Schaipp: Well, from a technical point of view, I have to say that I was very positively surprised that you are very free in modeling the data. Because you can create a completely free data model. You are no longer, as with other analysis tools, so restricted to this data model. I found that very, very positive. Practically, you are then freer in your design. Then, as already mentioned, the return capability, especially in connection with the fact that other applications, possibly Adobe applications, are also brought on board, the connection is quite fast and also good. But we have also checked with our existing personal tool how the return capability is. That is also a given. So that was already an important topic. And what will also be important later, especially for Thomas, is how can we integrate this for you? That is also very important, that we can calculate scores and so on and that we can exchange that very quickly with the AEP and that is also used in the AEP.

Anna Graser: I think you are referring to this integrated data science workspace in the AEP. Can you perhaps briefly explain what is so special about this, okay, we'll buy this in addition versus how it works in the AEP?

Fabian Schaipp: To a certain extent, I have to say, because I haven't done that much with it myself yet, but it definitely offers something and expands the whole thing, so that you can work on more topics yourself and bring your own model into it. Each company must decide for itself whether what it already has is sufficient, because each company is of course at a different stage in its subject area. But in any case, the AEP also offers opportunities to at least start with that. And from what I've heard, Adobe is also expanding quite a bit.

Anna Graser: Yeah. Okay, got that. And from a business perspective?

Thomas Forster: From a business point of view, I think we've already created the foundations digitally so that the use cases can play out. I would say that we have also integrated the web channel. Of course, it's also very interesting for us to know to what extent a journey optimizer, for example, can also be used to analyze the channel perspective in case of doubt. So especially when it comes to push the one-to-one communication, to say, I want to connect now an email marketing channel with. I would also like to send SMS in the push area. How can I connect that within the CDP, within the AEP with the-, let's say, existing construct that we already have live. It's exciting for so a little bit from a business perspective, while in the future campaigning is also emerging. How a customer experience can emerge across multiple channels and still going in that direction now.

Anna Graser: Maybe short disclaimer, a short discourse for our viewers:inside. You just said journey optimizer so away. I don't know if everybody knows the tool, but in the end just a short summary, it is a possibility to create a content for a one-to-one communication, i.e. email, SMS, push messages, on top of the AIP in an application, so to speak, in order to really build the content into journeys. For this, also use special triggers and actions, when this content should be played out to whom. And then, on top of that, personalize the whole thing. So, it's another huge world. I just wanted to mention it again, but you just said it so naturally. Exactly. But so that's definitely a tool for you guys that you're going to use in the future as well.

Thomas Forster: Yes, exactly. Behind that maybe also build a kind of act strategy. I would say, which channels are suitable for customers at which point in time. That's what we're hoping for through the use of HAO, and we're looking forward to that.

Anna Graser: Very nice.

Franziska Borgwald: Yes, good. And when the beginnings were there, so to speak, and you had decided, what was the point where the lottery came just with our project to implement the first proof of concept with the API. Here again a little disclaimer for our whitepaper. As I said, we'll be happy to send it in the follow-up. Why? Um, there's a little bit more content proof of concept. Exactly. And now when you two look back over the last year and a half. What would you say was the biggest challenge in the introduction of the AEP?

Thomas Forster: I already mentioned one of them, data protection and commission management. I don't think you can underestimate this topic in general. You have to be clear from the outset, what do I need in the first place in order to also, yes, learn the information from the customer, also in order to then ultimately locate it in the AEP and which commissions are there, for example, in order to activate the channels?

Anna Graser: Can you briefly elaborate on what you mean by commissions?

Thomas Forster: Are consents, so to speak, that are now given by the customer in order to be allowed to use e-mail marketing, for example.

Anna Graser: Meaning that I, as a Telefonica or O2 customer, would say that if I were to sign a contract, for example, you would be allowed to send me an e-mail.

Thomas Forster: Contact. Contact options. Exactly. And cookie consent also plays a role here, because cookie consent ultimately also takes online surfing behavior into account, so to speak, and I would like to say that the two apply together and that this should be located in the AEP. From my point of view, it is also a challenge. We definitely have to work on that as well. To be open on the dimension, we didn't think it that we have to head in that direction as well. And another point from my point of view, which was also mentioned earlier, is this scope of use cases that have now been dumped in across all departments, to structure them, to evaluate them and then ultimately to lead them to success via a concept. That was also challenging, but at the same time also very, very profitable for me personally, I would say, because you also get insights into other departments and understand how the other departments work. And internal processes go hand in hand with that. So that means bringing all parties into the same boat. Improving coordination among each other. And then convincing the stakeholders that this is the right way to go is, I think, also very, very important, that you create transparency right from the start and convince people that this is the right way to go.

Anna Graser: Got it. From a technical perspective?

Fabian Schaipp: Yes, when we started a year and a half ago, the vreally was still very fresh on the market, and you didn't really notice that at the beginning, because we were able to implement the first ... requirements technically quite quickly. But when you have the first, the next, the next, and then Thomas comes along with his business requirement. All of a sudden, you realize that the AEP is not yet ready for all the implementation criteria that we would like to have. So, the development status was good, but not yet perfect, and now after one and a half years, or rather it's already been a good two years that we've been working with it, you can see that a lot is happening. And you always have to keep in mind that sometimes new products are not as far along as you would like them to be. And the second point is of course this-, as I said before, this Cookieless topic, somehow transferring data, although at the beginning maybe not yet, but we would like, as Thomas said at the beginning, is just not so easy. And also to somehow get the data merged. You can build up a lot of data to a Consent, but still you need somewhere all parties, as Thomas also said, working together, so that we can somehow merge the data in the AEP then at all then. Because the technology is there, but somehow you still need some kind of technical basis, keys or something, which are then there for matching.

Anna Graser: Got it. Let's assume that you could somehow beam yourselves back a year and a half into the past to the beginning of the project. You have now listed the challenges a bit. What would you say you could have done differently and perhaps also better in order not to encounter these challenges in the way you did? Or what maybe-, also to name something positive, what would you do again just the same, because it worked at all?

Fabian Schaipp: I like to start with the positive. Which was absolutely the right decision that we started POC. That we didn't immediately, here, bow wave, and here have 10,000 use cases, please provide revenue. So, we started small. We said, let's see what's on the market. Because Thomas also mentioned that we also had our own development, already a certain level, but noticed that it doesn't work so well. And then we started with a small ... proof of concept to see whether it was worth it for us or not. Because actually there is always money behind it. And the business goals have to be achieved somehow. I found that very positive. What we had to do, as Thomas pointed out, was to involve all parties at an early stage, especially to talk to data protection at an early stage. There were some hurdles that we didn't see at first that were imposed by data protection, and it's best to address that early on. And also collect the permissions, i.e. the consent from the customers, because we have now done it this way, set it up technically, and then of course we wanted to get started, but we didn't have any reach because we hadn't yet collected everyone's consent. That also takes time. And then there's the whole framework. As I said, get all the parties involved, get them involved as early as possible, so that you can kind of clearly define the framework.

Anna Graser: Yes.

Franziska Borgwald: Yes, good. Then we also looked a lot at the past months, so to speak. Then let's briefly come to the current point in time. Can you give us an update, so to speak? So, what are the current topics in the context of the CDP that you are dealing with or what you are currently working on?

Fabian Schaipp: Yes, I think there are plenty of topics, but in a nutshell, what are our top priorities right now? Cookieless topic, as often mentioned now, or customer match can also be it. So, somehow addressing customers via an e-mail address when we have the customer's consent, in order to then address him via display advertising or so specifically with precisely targeted products that are suitable for him. Then, of course, we want to apply further channels. So of course, because we come from the online sector, we have concentrated primarily on online channels. But the power behind this is all-encompassing. 360 degrees means we want to offer new channels, connect them, as Thomas already said, HEO is the next topic, where we want to test further and build that up.

Thomas Forster: Yes, from a business perspective, we also launched a more aggressive initiative about a year ago, called customer activation and personnel situation. Now it's a question of really building up a central control unit in order to use the AEP profitably. As I said, this means first of all getting all parties to the table. All the business cases that we have already collected, but which of course still exist, are to be bundled together once again. Then also to request from Adobe via the ... capabilities what we now need and ultimately to go into the departments a bit and say that we now have personalization as a strategic pillar and we also need, yes, measurement methods and metrics to make personalization really comparable in the departments via campaigns. And that is also, I would say, a challenge to solve the channel target conflicts a bit, to introduce really overarching control variables, a customer value that is also suitable for all departments and to implement personalization. These are measures that we are currently working on and that are also important for us.

Anna Graser: So, it's a bit like what you were talking about just now, the challenge of processes and structures. This means that you are now working against your processes and structures on omnichannel marketing.

Thomas Forster: Exactly. Exactly right. That's the way it is. And also to say, okay, now we have these metrics in Place, for example. Admittedly, it will take a little while, but then also to report how well or how badly a personalized campaign works in certain dashboards. To visualize all of this centrally, so to speak, in order to derive recommendations for action. These are the next steps that we want to take, and that's why it's so extremely important that all stakeholders are convinced of this path and also participate in this team.

Anna Graser: Yes. You have now given us a lot of insides and a lot of learnings and challenges. To perhaps round off the whole thing a bit and actually conclude it. Could you give us your three most important learnings that you have extracted from this pool of concepts and, derived from that, three super tips that we can give our viewers for the future for an appropriate AEP or AEP project?

Thomas Forster: I think we could give ten tips in that respect.

Anna Graser: Let's limit it to three.

Thomas Forster: Let's focus that, okay. So, I think it's important to define from the beginning in this team that we worked in, and it was a teamwork from the beginning, a clear vision, a clear strategy forward as well. So, to say, speaking for us, we would like to know a consistent personalized communication, one-to-one communication across all channels at the right touchpoint customers also implement, enable. That is for us so the visionary, visible. Then derived from that was data strategy and marketing strategy. So to really say, okay, I now have these two strategic pillars that are based on this vision. We have done quite well by implementing them in this way. I would do the same again.

Anna Graser: That means, to translate it briefly. First think about where I want to go and then say, what do I need to get there? (Thomas Forster: Exactly.) And not first, okay, I want a CDP and then at some point, (Thomas Forster: Right.) now I'll take a look around, somewhere a strategy.

Thomas Forster: Exactly. Always first, when a use cases come together, where do I actually want to go and then, to request what I need also then and to enable it via the platform as well.

Anna Graser: Yes.

Thomas Forster: The second point is, I think we also underestimated a bit at the beginning, you also have to take your time for the evaluation. That is, you really have to screen the market based on what I want from the department, as a company have to put in, to think, what is right for me? I've seen it before in the best of breed versus platform agnostic approach. Can you briefly pros and cons in both worlds, but, as I said, I think even there, standing out from the marketing stack it's important to make a decision and based on that, then again, form a small proof-of-concept team, which then simple use cases, profitable use cases come from the top. I would do that again in exactly the same way. In my view, it was extremely effective to implement it this way. Also with the broad expertise of all departments that were involved. I can recommend this approach to anyone. And exactly, the last big point from my point of view, or the third tip, is to communicate clearly and transparently with the stakeholders right from the start. Where are you at? Where is the journey going? And what women here from the respective departments-, so felt one 90 percent of my initial work, communication in the respective departments to really create transparency. How is the progress of the whole topic and where should it go in the next steps.

Anna Graser: Does the whole issue of onboarding and knowledge transfer also play a role in making it clear to people what it is, how it works and what it brings you?

Thomas Forster: Yes, Anna, you have to imagine - I think there are a lot of people involved who bring in their own perspective from the channels, who bring in a data-driven perspective, with data experts, and data protection experts as well. These are completely different areas of expertise. They come together in this large functional team. First of all, they all have to be brought to a common denominator in terms of savings, in terms of subject matter, and I think that's also a point that has brought us personally - I'm speaking for both of us now, I hope I'm speaking for you, too - extremely far in our personal development to really look into the expertise of our colleagues in order to understand this overall context and then ultimately to implement it in the form of use cases.

Fabian Schaipp: I would like to add one more point, because, as Thomas already said, we have learned a lot from our colleagues, because we are not that deep in the business and what I find particularly exciting is that our colleagues have already been given tools to run their marketing measures, campaigns and so on. Now, for example, we have introduced CPD. Now they have to change again. That means you have to pick them up at an early stage and give them a playground so that they can practice with it first. What is different? What might work better? At the beginning, it might be a little worse than what they are used to, because we all know that habit is simply a comfort zone. Now we have to get out of it, but it can still be better. A step into the future.

Anna Graser: Yes. And to you Thomas, thank you very, very much for all the insights and for the nice conversation. I would suggest that we actively open up the question round to our audience with that as well, or I think you're moderating us through that.

Julia Miksch: Exactly. Thank you very much to the experts for the insights that you've given us and we've already collected questions in advance, but I think you already have those with you. Yes, you can equate them, but we also have a question here in the chat, or rather several, I'll start with the one first: "You first talked about proof-of-concepts to prove the value. Was Adobe an expensive investment in that sense?" Exactly, that's the first part of the question, and it goes on, "Is it possible to do proof-of-concept without dedicated CDP, but with a mix of tools?"

Thomas Forster: I can try to answer the first question. Yes, what is expensive. Expensive is always relatively speaking. So, I think we have to differentiate a little bit there as well. We have talked to Adobe and, as I said, we want to implement a specific use case. So in the cross-selling case, we don't need the entire broad spectrum of the AEP and also not the information that is still available in the suite, but we want to focus on the corresponding time test licenses and then also implement and prove them, and of course the commercial impact also plays a role, But it wasn't the case that we acquired full blown solutions right from the start, so to speak, but rather we discussed our intended use, our use case, with Adobe and then came up with a constructive solution as to how we could implement it in this proof-of-concept.

Fabian Schaipp: Then I would try to answer the second question a little bit, but that was about whether you can also test it without the CDP or such a test license. I would say, yes, to certain parts. because of course it depends on which channels you want to test at the beginning. If, for example, I have Google Analytics or something like that in use and want to go in the direction of Google anyway and serve these marketing channels first, then I could well imagine that if you have the-, yes, there again for data protection reasons you must not forget. If you have the possibility to bring in existing customer information, because that was one of the most important things that we wanted to bring together with it, if you can bring it in there, for example, or in another analysis tool, which is somehow connected.

The other way around will also work, analytics data, online data into CIM. In any case, no matter where, if you have the ability to match the data, merge it and then activate it on some marketing channel, if it's first mur one or maybe even the onsite personalization channel, why not? Then I don't have to take a CDP right away. But you're going to find at some point pretty quickly, I think, that you're going to reach your limits at some point.

Anna Graser: Plus, that would be just a test of the impact in the first step. So, what impact does the CDP or these functionalities in particular the profiling have on my goals? Of course, you can't estimate that, and I think that was the case for us, because, as I said, we were involved in a project. But the goal was also a bit to test the functionalities of the platform. Basically, this means that if you want to take a look at how it benefits us from a business perspective or from a KPI perspective, but you can't evaluate the CDP solution itself, because it's not available there.

Julia Miksch: Yes, thank you very much. That's it for now with the questions from the chat. Anna, you still had questions, as I said, queried and-.

Anna Graser: Exactly. And that is, we had been sent a few more questions in advance. The first one, which I actually also find quite exciting, was, maybe it's also quite exciting for our viewers. What roles do you need in order to implement such a proof-of-concept in the first step? So, what roles, what profiles did you have involved? Maybe you could also briefly go into what was involved, because that would have an influence on the roles. But what did you need for this? Apart from a DCP now?

Thomas Forster: I can begin. For us it was important, right from the start, that we remain relatively small in the proof-of-concept. That means, of course, there are data engineers, there are ... data scientists, all data experts, who of course play a role in the context. But we deliberately focused on, let's say, two or three people internally who had data expertise and who also came into this proof-of-concept team. And we have also strengthened ourselves, among other things through you, so that we can also cover all relevant information or topics within the proof of concept from the data perspective. The same applies to the marketing side. From the very beginning, we were able to include an e-mail marketer, a sales marketer, and a performance marketer. But we also focused and said that we would take two or three marketing experts with us, who would now accompany us in this functional team, who would then bring this expertise into the channels, so to speak, in terms of the progress of this project. And I think that has proven successful because, as I said, this expertise has also been communicatively transferred and I think this team is expanding little by little. So then also ... frontend experts, UXers come in, who now also optimize the trainings, especially when it comes to enabling the frontends for personalization across channels and it becomes IT more annoying the whole topic. But now, especially at the beginning, when you set up a concept, I think it's first important to work on the existing structure. It's also important to take existing expertise into account and then, either through yourselves or through Adobe Consulting, for example, to take these missing expertise measures into account so that this proof of concept can also work.

Fabian Schaipp: I think one of the most important people or roles-, I'll call it role, -has been forgotten by Thomas. We've talked about it so many times now. We work with data here and we want to bring together-, let's say, anonymous data from the online area, with existing customer data. So, what do we need? Data protection. Because we're going to be privacy compliant because we're not going to bamboozle our customers or pull the wool over their eyes. We want, if they give us consent, we want to do it right. And the closer you are to data protection or if you even have a dedicated data protection person in your team, the easier and faster you can probably also implement certain use cases or certain requirements or have them evaluated faster. So, I think that's very, very important and, yes, as Thomas otherwise also says, you need business experience and you also need technical experience, of course. And the more technical know-how you want to bring in, for example, data scientists, I'm just a data scientist, but if we want to do more, then you also need scientists in your team at some point. Because then you-. Okay, a tester doesn't cost anything in the beginning, of course, because you want to start with small things first.

Anna Graser: Yes. Roger. I have one more question. And I know we've already answered this question in great detail in the interview. But I still want to ask it again, because I thought it might fit thematically quite well. And that is, perhaps to pick up everyone in front of the camera again and also behind the camera. Some time ago, we did an interview with Fabi about how we implement the AEP precisely in this Google Stake, and you have already mentioned that this was a very important criterion for you in the introduction, that it also fits into this Google Stake. And the question actually came in again in the run-up to the webinar. Can you perhaps summarize again quickly how exactly or what was important and how did you ultimately do it? I know that's maybe a little bit technical now, but I thought that also fits quite well in the context.

Fabian Schaipp: Yeah, sure, I'd love to. So, as I said, we have the Analytics area. For us, it's concentrated on Google Analytics and of course my analyst experts didn't want to switch to another analytics tool now, that's for sure. Then we are very familiar, my colleague and I, with Google Tag Manager. We didn't want to give that up, because that would mean we would have to rebuild everything, the whole tag would have to be rebuilt, we would have to incorporate a new tag management system. That wasn't the goal either. This is where I thought Adobe brought a good solution. Because of the ST Case in the web area as well as in the app area, you are quite flexible there. You can integrate this quite well via the Tech Manager and can later consider whether you then integrate it directly into the website and not another Tech Manager. That was a big advantage and, as mentioned, the flexible data model. We were able to specifically use what we had already built up with Google Analytics anyway, because we had a predefined data model there, and we were able to take that as a basis and adapt it a bit, expand it, and simply push it into the AEP. We were very flexible and I thought that was super good.

Anna Graser: Yes. Thank you very much. And for all of you who are interested in more depth, you can also find this interview on our website, or perhaps we can send you the link again afterwards. That's it from my side with the questions. I don't know if anything else came in via the chat. Like the between-.

Julia Miksch: Yes, one question was asked, namely. To what extent were you supported by Adobe or to what extent by diva-e?

Fabian Schaipp: Short answer. Super good. Do you want to split it up, the question? I would start again from the technical perspective. We had, sure, at the very beginning, we probably didn't know it either. I thought it was good that we had a day or two of training like that and that's when we were able to see the AEP already. So that was super good, Adobe offered it. We were completely guided through, we could ask questions, we could get a first impression, so to speak. And then also during the integration, during the set-up, the technical implementation gave me-, I think weekly or-, yes, weekly, exchange with Adobe. That was just super good. You could ask questions quickly, you got responses quickly. So, I thought it was very good from a technical point of view.

Thomas Forster: I can only confirm that. From a business perspective, the coordination with you and Adobe worked very well from my point of view. Of course, we bought a consulting package from Adobe. We used that to the fullest, but the things that we couldn't solve through consulting, we ultimately handled through you. So, this three-way construct, business on the one hand and, let's say, an element via you as an intermediary between business and between Adobe and Adobe as a platform owner, so to speak, that worked quite well from my point of view, yes.

Julia Miksch: Thank you very much for the exciting insights, you four. Thank you Thomas and Fabian for joining us today and sharing your experiences with us. Thank you Anna and Franziska and, exactly, if there are any questions or suggestions, then feel free to contact Anna or Romy afterwards. Here you can see the contact details. Exactly. Which you're welcome to note down and otherwise you can also reach our link and through different channels, so if there are questions, you can find it. Thank you very much and I hope you and you enjoyed it, dear viewers and hopefully see you next time.

Fabian Schaipp: Thank you

Thomas Forster: Bye